Brutal Group Attack and Robbery on a Man in a Parking Lot
category: Shocking | views: 40269 | posted on: 03/03/2008
CCTV operators have it made. They get to watch this stuff all day.
comments
ShockCaller [ban] | Mar 3 08 : 9:37am
+4 
I definitely agree regarding 'responsible and educated gun ownership.' The Second Amendment, regardless of one's interpretation of 'well-regulated militia,' at the very least demands that gun ownership should be subject to licensing and background checks. As for the 'criminals will always have guns' meme, it doesn't really hold true on a federal level. Yes, criminals will have guns if they're available a state away and banned in their own state -- however, the average mugger will be less likely to have a firearm if the black market requires crossing international lines to obtain a gun. At the very least, it would make illegal weapons prohibitively expensive. This would lower gun-related homicides, but violent crimes with knives and such would probably rise. That's why its such a murky issue, y'know? Six gangland murders, or a half-dozen near-fatal stabbings...take your pick.
Chartreuse [ban] | Mar 4 08 : 12:17am
"gun ownership should be subject to licensing and background checks.
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...which ignores the fact that allowing the government to license firearms inevitably ensures they will eventually be confiscated.
http://archive.newsmax.co m/archives/articl...31/20 0747.shtml
http://www.guncite.com/gu n_control_registration.ht ml
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It's already happening here.
http://www.freerepublic.c om/forum/a3b548a4a2136.ht m
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"As for the 'criminals will always have guns' meme, it doesn't really hold true on a federal level."
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Shocky, where do you come up with this kind of pompous crap? I mean, really. You're worse than some of those blowhards on NPR and, like them, you're still wrong.
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"Yes, criminals will have guns if they're available a state away and banned in their own state -- however, the average mugger will be less likely to have a firearm if the black market requires crossing international lines to obtain a gun."
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Bad news, Shocky. You jut got pwned again. As it turns out illegal guns are being smuggled into the UK from Eastern Europe. So yeah, it does hold true "at the federal level". This also ties in nicely with your earlier assertion that a blanket gun control policy would be an improvement in the US.
http://www.dvc.org.uk/dun blane/times1.html
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"At the very least, it would make illegal weapons prohibitively expensive."
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...and another one of your bit theories goes down the drain. A hoodlum can buy a sawed off shotgun or a pistol for about £50 to £200.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h i/uk_news/england/6180559 .stm
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No matter, you're having a blast shooting your mouth off again. 
ShockCaller [ban] | Mar 4 08 : 9:08pm
Yeah, I did. I also looked at the section discussing "British authorities routinely underreport crime statistics." You should too.
You can't under-report homicides, genius. Other crimes, maybe so. Also, if they've under-reported crimes before and after firearm legislation, its a wash - the stats are meaningless.
Your assertion also fails because many countries with tight gun control have higher homicide rates than we do. The U.S. has a higher non-gun murder rate than many European country's total murder rates. On the other hand, Taiwan, the Philippines, and Mexico have non-gun murder rates in excess of our total murder rate.-
http://www.guncite.com/gu n_control_gcgvinco.html
Sorry, but my response was to your original data, which flatly contradicts your statement here. That you would need to compare U.S. murder rates to second-world countries such as Mexico, in a desperate attempt to bolster your point, actually does more to derail your argument. Let's try to compare apples to a reasonably civilized fruit, mmkay?
On the contrary. It's what makes America great. It allows people to see how different approaches to social issues work.
Yes, and we see that it has unforseen consequences, ones which have not yet been reconciled with reality. That's not 'great,' it's a failure to adapt.
Everyone here knows where you stand on gun control, Shocky. It's a controversial subject that gives you another excuse to troll for an argument. Even before I posted I said to myself, "Shocky's gonna wet himself with this one." And I was right! The argument is what's important for you, not the subject. That's where you stand on any "issue". You troll for arguments on everything from military spending, to how AIDs gets spread, to what constitutes legitimate road use.
If your impetus to post is centered around the responses of an anonymous interwebs poster, I'd say you've reached a markedly unhealthy level of obsession. Thanks...?
...which proves that gun restrictions don't stop criminals from obtaining guns illegally. All they do is stop the criminals' victims from also being armed.
Which I commented on later in my post, my premature chum.
Even if every gun and knife in the world somehow vanished, violent crime would still happen as it did in this video. A group of thugs jumping a lone person and beating them half to death. As the UK has shown, total gun control hasn't done a damn thing to make people "safer".
No, its simply made them more alive. As I also stated later, gun control (using a fair comparison, thankyouverymuch) doesn't lower crime levels as much as it lowers the homicide rate. Pragmatically, that makes it a winning issue. To 'cowboy up' idjits, it takes away their manhood.
The minorities in the US are hardly "underpivileged". You're really trolling every possible subject today, aint'cha? :D They have access to hundreds of minority-only social programs that equally poor Caucasians don't. Whitey has to make it on his own and let's face it, a lot don't.
You call it trolling (suprising, really), I call it an attempt to draw a parallel. I never said Hispanics were 'underprivileged,' I said they're the closest thing to the underprivileged classes in Australia and Europe. The point was that all three groups are poorly integrated, but you had to go into Pavlovian racialist mode and assume I wasn't showing due deference to the plight of the white male. My apologies.
That's idle speculation on your part. The opposite could also happen. Higher crime might cause more people to seek looser restrictions so they can own guns for self protection.
That's what I meant -- if my wording eluded you, reading my next sentence, rather than falling back into the contrarian crouch of which you constantly accuse others, might have shown you what I meant.
Every felon in the US today can't own a gun. That's what gun control advocates always cover up. Gun control only keeps law-abiding people from buying guns legally. Criminals will always be able to buy guns on the black market if they want them. The L.A. Riots sparked an enormous upsurge in gun buying.The state's Justice Department reported that Californians purchased over 23,000 firearms in the eight days following the riots -- a jump of 26.3 percent over the same period a year earlier.
Yes, and I'm sure none of those firearms were stolen and found themselves in the hands of criminals. I'm also sure none of those firearms were taken in the midst of a robbery and turned against the (former) owner. It's waaay more common then you think, honestly.
ShockCaller [ban] | Mar 5 08 : 2:38pm
A few things, Chartreuse:
- sorry, but not requiring licensing of guns on the state level is un-Constitutional by any scholarly and reasonable interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. Deal w'it.
- I never asserted that 'blanket gun control would be an improvement in the U.S. Not even close. You, however, did ascribe that belief to this undecided fellow, 'cause you wanted to argue. Troll.
- I'd like to think American customs are a bit tighter than that seen in the U.K., especially considering the loosened restrictions of the European Union. As such, illicit arms deals would be more difficult and costly into the States, and would lead to higher prices/lower numbers of armed criminals.
- stop crying that I'm responding to you while writing as much or more than I do - considering that and the banal nickname by which you refer to me, you sound more hypocritical than I would have thought possible (see my second point). Argue maturely or go home.
Chartreuse [ban] | Mar 6 08 : 7:40am
"- I never asserted that 'blanket gun control would be an improvement in the U.S. Not even close. You, however, did ascribe that belief to this undecided fellow, 'cause you wanted to argue. Troll."
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Contrarian Warning Sign Number Four: Accusing the accusers. When confronted with their trolling, trolls immediately respond that it is the accusers who are trolls (see Natural Predators below). Often the Contrarian will single out his most vocal opponent and claim that while he can respect his other opponents, this one in particular is beneath his notice.
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From Phil's Field Guide to Trolls 5th edition.
http://www.themartialist. com/pecom/fieldguidetotro lls.htm
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Actually, it's you who love arguing. That's all you ever do around here. The moment anyone says anything that prickles your intellectual vanity as the Official Forum Smart Ass, you jump in. It isn't just me, it's everyone around here. For someone as "undecided" as you claim, you sure argue incessantly. Little wonder. The issue isn't important, you argue about everything with equal ferocity. What's important for guys like you is winning the argument, or going on until people get bored and leave. I've seen guys like you before. So has Phil Elmore.
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Seriously, Shocky. You may fancy yourself the smartest guy on the board, but you can't disguise your essential nature. You are what you are and you act accordingly.
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P.S. Since I know you're paranoid about it, I wasn't the one who gave you the -1. You may not believe that, but it's true.
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You must have gotten it from someone else who's equally unimpressed with your trolling here.
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Validated [ban] | Mar 3 08 : 8:18am
+1
Did you actually look at the figures on that site to which you linked? The homicide rates are markedly higher in countries with lax gun laws -- note that the author included suicides(?) in the totals, as America's low suicide numbers inflated his data.America may have less violent crime, but homicide numbers don't back up the NRA. I'm not sure where I stand on gun control, but the piecemeal, state-by-state system is a debacle -- see how Guliani's gun restrictions still run up against gangs carrying illegal firearms from Virginia, where laws are much looser.The closest thing America faces to the underprivileged Aboriginal and Muslim underclasses of Australia and Europe, respectively, is the burgeoning Hispanic population. Much like over there, crime rates have risen sharply in concentrated ghettos. If that class continues to grow, without greater integration into American society, I'm sure government will be hard-pressed to continue enacting gun control laws. However, those who support loose gun laws and strict border control probably won't get both of their wishes.